Glad I'm not in Norway

[John_S]

If I recall correctly from when I audited an electric company in the early 80's, commercial/industrial users have always had half hour meters and part of their monthly charge was based on the maximum half hourly demand/consumption. Norway is extending this policy to domestic customers.

And it worked in days before smart meters were a figment of the imagination.

Also, when I lived in Korea in 2005-7, domestic electricity bills had a tiered pricing structure with the unit kWh cost going up as one consumed more. It was a means of subsidising poorer consumers, but of course only worked with state monopolies.

[Mr Gus]

Thanks for the additional information JohnS.
Tinbum, can you remind us as to your smart / not smart twin meters!?

& Here was I on the cusp of *finally* asking for concise contractual details pertaining to smart, having matured, only to find its still fecked.
Apologies for spelling, More incomers (might explain our reduced charge) ..5 amps ffsr
In short lots of new folk kicked out of london, More strain on infrastructure (I think)
Nice folk though.

[Tinbum]

Tinbum, can you remind us as to your smart / not smart twin meters!?

I live on a farm so we have a meter for the house and one for the farm buildings, both 3 phase.

I just wonder if this Norway thing is going to come over here. They, I believe, have had the largest take up of electric vehicles and are they now finding problems? It's great having tariffs such as Go but how is this going to work in the future when everyone tries to charge in a small cheap time slot.

On here, we are interested in all of this stuff, but what's going to happen with the general public that aren't interested and just want to plug their car in. I have friend that has never changed his electricity supplier or tariff for years despite me saying how much he could save. If he wants to waste money then that's up to him, but look at the state of the electricity suppliers now. They are stuck with price caps that the government have come up with partly because of people like my friend.

[Stinsy]

Tinbum, can you remind us as to your smart / not smart twin meters!?

I live on a farm so we have a meter for the house and one for the farm buildings, both 3 phase.

I just wonder if this Norway thing is going to come over here. They, I believe, have had the largest take up of electric vehicles and are they now finding problems? It's great having tariffs such as Go but how is this going to work in the future when everyone tries to charge in a small cheap time slot.

On here, we are interested in all of this stuff, but what's going to happen with the general public that aren't interested and just want to plug their car in. I have friend that has never changed his electricity supplier or tariff for years despite me saying how much he could save. If he wants to waste money then that's up to him, but look at the state of the electricity suppliers now. They are stuck with price caps that the government have come up with partly because of people like my friend.

The cheap rate exists because the grid has a problem of excess supply and a dearth of demand at that time. The more people who shift their usage into that slot the better. There certainly is no possibility of the grid becoming overloaded during the cheap period...

BTW: Did you say you had a 3-phase smart meter? I thought they were mythical?

[Tinbum]

The cheap rate exists because the grid has a problem of excess supply and a dearth of demand at that time. The more people who shift their usage into that slot the better. There certainly is no possibility of the grid becoming overloaded during the cheap period...

BTW: Did you say you had a 3-phase smart meter? I thought they were mythical?

The problem I can see is going to be the 'dearth of demand' period will disappear as everyone will be pugging in electric vehicles on a night time. Clever charging will spread the load but i can foresee a shift in demand from what we have currently.

Smart 3 phase meters have been around since about August last year but it's been difficult to get one. Mine was fitted in the summer. Earlier this year I was with BG (after being moved from Ebico) and the meter fitter that came out to fit me a 'smart' meter said he had never heard of them and that BG didn't fit them when he enquired with head office.

[MikeNovack]

Spotted this in a thread on the openenergymonitor forum,

Hi, in Norway a new electricity usage policy is going to be implemented next year. If I use more than a certain amount of kWh within 1 hour, I get a penalty for the entire month. There will likely be two steps, 5kWh and an even higher penalty if I use >10kWh

That's a "demand charge". Here in the US in most places residential customers do not pay this but businesses do. You were slightly misled by way described (energy/hour) but that is just AVERAGE power in the hour. In other words, the max average KW in the billing period. Again here might be worse, based on VA (taking reactance of the draw into account)

Again here, this would play a major role in pricing for high speed charge points for EVs, especially if lightly used. One large fast charge in the month adding a large "demand" component to the bill

[Oliver90owner]

An old thread re-ignited?

I could live with a 10kW maximum, I think. Just not run the washing machine or dishwasher on car charging nights (or I can limit my car EVSE take from the car charging settings, I think).

A 5kW limit would be a good tax revenue stream? As all home chargers have been made to sink 7kW.

It is not just about cheaper energy generation costs at night. It is also a means of shifting demand. Anything/everything used at the cheaper night rate is going to decrease the day-time demand by the equivalent amount.

Nothing new about cheap night rates, maximum demand and power shedding in UK industry. We got cheaper night rates (I would perhaps add an extra 10MW @22:00h and be sure, if possible, to lose it in the morning). Maximum demand increase above an agreed daytime level affected the day-rate for the whole of that month (better to exceed it on day one than close to the end of the month, I guess?). If there was as shortage of grid power, we could be asked to shed 2 or 3MW at fairly short notice. That agreement, too, reduced our leccy bill for the duration of the contract. It was occasionally difficult to drop that amount in certain circumstances (like when we were already only taking about 10MW!) I can remember scratching around to stop every drive possible - even relatively small drives which would normally be running 24 hours a day.

[AGT]

Difficult when consumer appliances have been designed for years without this in mind.

My 10.8kW shower would be a pain